Deliberate Discomfort | Jason Van Camp

Deliberate Discomfort

with Jason Van Camp


About today’s guest:

Jason Van Camp is the author of the book, Deliberate Discomfort, which is both a Wall Street Journal and 2x #1 Amazon Best Selling book. For the last 10+ years, he has run the consulting firm, Mission Six Zero, which dramatically improves sales performance, reduces costs, and wins by providing their client’s teams with a new way of solving organizational problems. He is also the Executive Director of the 501-3c organization, Warrior Rising. He is a graduate of West Point, as well as Brigham Young University’s Business School, and is a 14-year Veteran of the US Army, where he served in the Green Beret.

Selected resources:


Justin Nassiri  00:01

On this episode of May I have your attention. I’m speaking with Jason VanCamp about deliberate discomfort.


Jason Van Camp  00:10

You know, taking those small doses of venom every single day doing something hard you can all might be small. Every single day, eating your vegetables, you know you hate asparagus. I will eat a few asparagus tonight for dinner. I don’t like taking a cold shower. Let’s take a cold shower. You really hate making your bed? Okay, well make your bed because the more you do it, the easier to get for you. And soon enough, it’s not going to be uncomfortable for you, it’s going to be comfortable for you and then it’s gonna be a habit and then you’re not gonna think about it.


Justin Nassiri  00:39

Attention is oxygen to your brand and critical in your personal life. How do you get it? How do you keep it and how do you make money with it? In each episode, we meet with top marketers thought leaders and experts to find out. May I have your attention is brought to you by, which turns your webinar or podcast into three months of social media content? Find out [email protected] Thanks for your attention. And let’s get started with today’s episode. All right, joining me in Salt Lake City. My guest is Jason VanCamp. Jason, welcome to Beyond the uniform my pleasure to be here.


Jason Van Camp  01:13

It’s a good time.


Justin Nassiri  01:14

So I want to give everyone a quick background on you and I’ll give you a chance to fill in any gaps or correct any mistakes. Jason is the author of the book deliberate discomfort which is both a Wall Street Journal and a two time number one Amazon best selling book for the past 10 plus years, he has run the consulting firm mission six zero, which dramatically improves sales performance reduces costs and wins by providing their clients teams with a new way of solving organizational problems. He is also the executive director of the 5013 c organization warrior rising. He is a graduate of West Point, as well as Brigham Young University’s Business School and as a 14 year veteran of the US Army where he served in the Greenbrae. Jason anything to add or amend that bio.


Jason Van Camp  02:01

Oh, man, it was. One thing is, those were discovered as a two time as a Amazon number one best selling book that it did not, unfortunately, the Wall Street Journal best selling title, another book that I co authored got that so I was able to get that title from there. So that’s just the only amendment I would give other than that, it was a great introduction. So I appreciate that.


Justin Nassiri  02:22

Awesome. So I want to start with the book deliver discomfort, I’m about a third of the way through listening the audio book, when I go running and loving it so far, what led you to write a book about discomfort?


Jason Van Camp  02:35

I think FOMO you know, fear of putting yourself out there, you know, you’ve heard of fear of missing out, you know, FOMO is a very similar or it’s social anxiety where you don’t want to put yourself out there, you want to post online, you don’t want to market yourself. And I think that has been ingrained in all of us in the special operations of these, knowing that in this Greenbrae communities like hey, we don’t talk about ourselves, we don’t talk about our missions, we don’t market ourselves where the quiet professionals Well, you know, I totally agree with that. But we can’t be silent professionals, you know, see what the Navy SEALs are doing with their marketing and, and they’re through the roof. And it’s fantastic. Everybody knows about the Navy SEALs, and we should do something similar. And so I knew that I needed to put my curriculum, my material, what I know to be true out there, so people can read it, digest it, buy into it, and then hire us as a company. That’s why I wrote the book.


Justin Nassiri  03:23

What I appreciate about that is it sounds like the act of writing the book was consciously putting yourself in an uncomfortable position. Like that was not something that you wanted to really do


Jason Van Camp  03:35

this exactly correct. You know, when I was talking to some of my mentors about writing a book, they’re like, Jason, you got to do it. You got to write the book. I was like, Ah, man, I don’t want to do it. I’m gonna be judged. I’m gonna get all the you know, all this negativity that you don’t want. We’re putting yourself out there. And they’re like, you know, I thought you were there getting comfortable being uncomfortable guy. I thought that was your thing. I thought that’s what you’re all about. And I said, You know what, you’re right. Like, I might as well, you know, swallow my own medicine here. I got to do this. And so that was just one of many things that I do that person uncomfortable for me that I need to do that I know I have to do, I just procrastinate because the feelings associated with that task is what kind of hurts us and prevents us from being the people that we were destined to be.


Justin Nassiri  04:21

I’ve never heard of FOMO before. But I relate to that. And I’m sure many people do we have a lot of examples in social media of people putting themselves out there, YouTube celebrities, Instagram, famous all of these things. I think that for a large subset of the population, there’s an aversion to that. And I’m just kind of curious what advice you have for me or people like that about what has helped you be more public than you’ve wanted to be or that is comfortable for you. Most


Jason Van Camp  04:51

of them agree with that. I think once you put yourself out there, you’re in a way saying judgment. You know, it’s okay to be judged like that. And that’s terrifying for a lot of people. comfortable for me and for other people. And I thought to myself when I was in the Special Forces, and I tried to give my team the best missions, I had to go to my boss and my group commander, and I had to convince them that we were the best team to do this mission. And we’re competing with all these other teams, they were highly qualified, you know, very professional, I had all the resumes. And what it really came down to was, we were marketing our teams, and I realized that I wasn’t up there marketing, Jason VanCamp. That’s uncomfortable talking about how amazing, great Jason VanCamp is, that sucks, man, I don’t want to do that. But I do enjoy marketing, how great how amazing. My team is the people that I have on my team. And I looked at it in that light. And then I started looking at it like, well, by doing what I’m doing on helping people, and that’s what I’m all about, I want to help people become better at whatever they want to be better at. And for most of us, it’s taking that uncomfortable leap of faith to face our fears, you know, and so I said, Listen, I’m marketing people that I believe in, and I love, you know, I’m building this business, and I’m helping people, why wouldn’t I put myself out there? What am I afraid of? Nothing.


Justin Nassiri  06:08

What I think is great about that is this example, like through service, you’re able to push through that barrier, you realize that you’re able to serve your team now with I’m guessing with Mission six, zero, and before your team of rangers and even the book, I can only imagine what that’s done for the awareness around the army, the awareness for special forces. So it’s like, realizing that you pushing through this discomfort is an act of service. And that gives you the extra leverage to tolerate that discomfort.


Jason Van Camp  06:37

You’re right, man, it’s all about getting comfortable, uncomfortable. It’s about making that courageous decision to deliberately choose discomfort. Now, it has to be voluntary, it has to be intentional, you know, it can’t be forced upon you, you know, you have to prove to yourself that you no longer satisfied with the way things are in your life, and you’re ready to do something about it, you’re not going to tolerate your situation any longer. And for many of us, we tolerate it, we say, well, it sucks, but it’s not this bad. I’m just gonna keep going down the path that I’m on, I’m not going to really do anything about it. Because you know, I don’t want to shake the boat, I’m afraid of what’s on the other side. But when you’re ready for change, when you’re ready for growth, when ready to accept and embrace suffering, because that’s the only way to grow is you know, you got to put yourself in those uncovered positions. So you can have a better life for yourself, for your business, for your family, for everybody, you know, and I always tell people, you know, always ask them at least what’s stopping you. And when you really break it down. It’s fear, you know, and fear will kill more dreams than failure ever? Well, one of the


Justin Nassiri  07:33

things I appreciate about the way that you structured your book is it leads with your own stories and the stories of others from the military from these incredible circumstances. And then you you kind of back it up with scientists with business applications and things like that. And I think that that helps me I think it helps others bridge that gap of, you know, obviously, the situation’s you’re describing, fortunately, most of us will never experience these, this Extremis. But then you really bring it home by saying, Look there, you know, here’s the science behind it. Here’s how this actually applies to business. And I’m wondering, especially for those who are here who are not members of the military community, could you share a little bit about your work with Mission six, zero, and specifically, how you have been bringing this body of work into I mean, fortune 500 companies like really big organizations, and you’re taking these lessons and applying it to non military people, non military components of the world,


Jason Van Camp  08:31

almost definitely. So I appreciate that. And first with the book, it’s a very unique way of writing the book just created that I hadn’t seen that done before in any other work. And I wanted to do it that way. Because I knew that the guys on my team have amazing stories to share about their life, not necessarily about combat, although a lot of them are about combat, but just about leadership in general. These are guys I recruited to the team that that I know, personally, they’re friends of mine. And I thought to myself, I just want my kids to be in a room with these people and just soak up everything that they are, you know, as we built the business, I realized a lot of these guys, when they’re telling their stories. We did q&a after the fact. And there were questions like, Well, how did you do that? Can you help me to do that? For my business, or personally? And a lot of times the answer was, I don’t know how I did it. I just did it for I relied on my training. And I knew right then in there, and I was like, listen, we can do better than that. I know, there’s a lot of military speakers out there that that’s their answer. I just rely on my training or I don’t know I did it. I just did it, you know, and then that’s not good enough. That’s not good enough for mission six, zero. And so very early on, I recruited scientists, Team behavioral experts, PhDs, researchers, people that I knew and trusted as well and built the relationship with over time. And I said, Let’s combine Special Operations with science. You know, the scientist and the veteran together can create something powerful, and that’s going to be very beneficial, very valuable for the client. And so I wrote the book where It’s me going to my unit for the first time after my grammar, right. And I mean, my commander and chapter one, and we talked about trust. And then right out through the story, you know, we break it down into actual, relatable and digestible action items from a scientific perspective. And so people that are like, Okay, I’m never gonna go to combat, I’m never going to get, you know, into a firefight. However, trust is very important to me. And I want to know how I can apply it to myself, well, we have the story of it broken down into scientific theories. And then right after that, we have a practical application. And that’s how every chapter is broken down. And so we’re pretty stoked on that. And people seem to really like that pattern, that platform that we’ve created. But edition six, zero, you know, we help people, we make money, we do epic things, that’s our culture. And people say what we solve the problem of misdirection, and you can define that in a number of ways. One spectatorship, you know, people just standing around doing nothing, not taking any action, weakness, failure, losing this organization, confusion and retention. And so what we do is we forge commanders, and so it’s a higher degree of leader what we call commander, right. And so we trained, retain, and challenge high performers to read, build an ad hoc cracy culture, and inspire people to be their best. And I really love the term Adhocracy culture. And for me, it’s sort of like a dynamic and innovative environment where employees are willing to take chances. And the leaders that commanders there are looked at, as and seen as inspirational innovators, willing to take risks and challenge assumptions. It’s an organization where you have core values of agility and adaptability. And you’re never going to hear the following in an ad hoc recei culture, we tried that already. And it didn’t work. And so I’m trying to build this warrior society of people that unlocks their purpose by deliberately choosing discomfort, and voluntarily choosing to place themselves in the uncomfortable position of facing their fears. And so that’s a mouthful, Justin. So there you have it, man. As into a short question,


Justin Nassiri  12:02

I think this is great. And a couple things that stand out to me. First of all, I’m guessing that the primary audience of your book, especially based on the success, it’s not really written for, necessarily for the military, it’s written for a broad audience of business people. But I’m also guessing that as you wrote this for yourself, for the people in your unit, for the people with similar circumstances, it must be an incredibly therapeutic way to take that training and dissect it to take these experiences and dissect it and bring in the scientific component. So that there is a better answer than like, this is the training or this is the way that I am, you can start to see like, oh, teasing apart these components of what is allowed you to achieve what many people view is impossible. I really appreciate that. And I think that’s an incredible act of service for yourself and your community. And I think this is great. And correct me if I’m wrong on this, it seems like a lot of the work that you do with Mission six zero is you are pinpointing key leaders in an organization and realizing that if you can train them to be better leaders, that ripple down effect to the team is able to pull out those people I forget the terms used, but one of them is like spectators like you’re able to draw people out from spectating, you’re able to draw people out to whatever might prohibit them from reaching their next level of success? And is that right? Are you kind of pinpointing the leaders and shifting this mindset so they can affect the organization underneath them?


Jason Van Camp  13:29

No, that’s exactly right. And I’ll give you an example. When we first started working with NFL National Football League teams, we worked primarily with the players, we found some success with that when we started working with the coaching staff. And we started working with the front office, that’s when we started to see real change, the culture was being established, people were learning how to lead for the first time granted, many of them knew the tactics, the X’s and O’s some of them, fantastic offensive line coach, they know more than anybody in the world about how to plan an offense, you know, run a West Coast offense or something like that. But as far as leading men leading people, they had no idea. And I think in the corporate world, you find something similar, where you’re, you’re representing your resume you and it’s an unbelievable resume, you have all these things on it, the person that hires you, the HR rep is looking at it and it looks great. And they say, Listen, you’re hired, let me show you to your desk. And now you’re expected to leave because of what it says on your resume. You know, you’re expected to do all these things. You have no idea what you’re doing. You have no idea how to do that. Nobody’s giving you formal training, how to lead people, you know, the tactics, you know your job pretty well, but now you’re in charge of other people. And so for example, in the military, let’s say we have a squad of guys, and they’re running a machine gun team. I’m simplifying it for those on the military. Now the best machine gunner, right? I think in the corporate world, a lot of times people would say oh, let’s he’s the best guy, best machine guy. Let’s promote them to the next rank and let’s get him in charge of other machine gunners. Well, we don’t do that in the military. What we do is we find That guy will say, Listen, he’s ready to move up, he’s doing a phenomenal job this make sure he trains his guys underneath of them. So they’re going to be the next iteration of phenomenal machine gunners. And we’re going to send this guy to a leadership course. And we’re gonna send him to this leadership course for three, four or five months. And we’re gonna get him to the point where he understands how to succeed as a leader in this next evolution, his next job that he has, and then we don’t send him back the same unit, because it’s a little awkward. Now he’s in charge of guys that were his peers, and so forth, we send him to a different unit. And now he’s going to have a fresh start, as a leader, all the things that he’s learned, and he’s going to move forward in that fashion, we need to do the same thing in the corporate world, in the civilian world. And that’s what Michelin six zero does give you that leadership training that you need that you don’t know that you need a lot of times to succeed. And so when you have that culture that is thriving, people want to be a part of, and you’re training the right guys to be the right leaders, and they know what they’re doing, then you have the bottom line increases, you have success, everywhere you look,


Justin Nassiri  16:01

one thing I’m reading into what you’re saying is, it seems like to be a good leader in an organization, you have to be choosing discomfort, like you need to be stepping into things that don’t necessarily feel comfortable, which for me, you know, with the kind of like a movie image of a good leader, it seems like they’re a natural that this is this innate ability, that they’re just expressing as who they are. But as I hear you talk, it seems like as a leader, you’re choosing discomfort in learning skills that might not be customed. To you, like pushing people in ways that might not feel good to you. And I have two questions on this one is like, is that even true? Like do leaders need to embrace discomfort? But the second thing I’m curious about is, is there a ways to cultivate discomfort and a tolerate tolerance for discomfort in our lives in small ways, like that bleeds over to those leadership aspects. It’s almost like is there a discomfort muscle that we can cultivate, that will help us in these other areas of our life?


Jason Van Camp  17:04

Probably said, number one, leaders must choose discomfort. Listen, you either choose hard things are hard things will choose you, they’re coming either way. So you might as well be proactive about it and prepare for it. Because if you’re not, you’re setting yourself up for failure. So if you as a leader are not choosing discomfort, you’re going backwards and you’re failing, you know, and how can we do that is by you know, like you said, voluntarily, deliberately, intentionally. You know, taking those small doses of venom every single day, you know, doing something hard, you can all might be small, every single day, eating your vegetables, you know, you hit asparagus, I will eat a few asparagus tonight for dinner, you know, you don’t like taking a cold shower, let’s take a cold shower, you really hate making your bed, okay? Well make your bed because the more you do it, the easier get for you. And soon enough, it’s not going to be uncomfortable for you, it’s going to be comfortable for you, and then it’s going to be a habit, and then you’re not going to think about it, you know, just like getting up early and going to the gym, right? A lot of times, I go to the gym almost every day, right? And when I walk in there, oftentimes I don’t want to be there, I’d rather be sleeping or I’m tired, or my mind’s not into it, or I’m sore, or whatever it might be. And I say to myself, Okay, I’m here and I’m going to do work. Let me get my mind prepared for it by just doing a few small exercises, you know, like, let me get on the treadmill and just half ass a few minutes on the treadmill, you know, and all of a sudden, my body’s getting warmed up, all of a sudden, I’m sweating just a little bit, all of a sudden, I’m thinking about the workouts and I’m, you know, I’m talking to myself that I can do this, and I’m getting excited for it. And now I’m ready for now I’m excited about it. And I think that’s what we need to do while we take these steps. And the first thing you have to do is take action, do something about it. You know, I look at it like this. Some of our clients in professional sports organizations and corporate clients will say to me, Jason, just motivate me, I just want you to motivate me, man. And I tell them the same thing. I can’t, and I’m not going to try, you know, and they’re like, What are you talking about? Isn’t that what you do? I’m like, I’m not going to motivate you. Because you can only motivate yourself, you know, I’m not going to be there. 24/7 I can’t hold your hand, I can’t motivate you all day long, every second of the day, only you can because you’re going to be there 24/7 The only thing I can do is I can inspire you, inspire you to motivate yourself. Because really the only true motivation is self motivation. And so it’s sort of like a circle where you have inspiration, then motivation, then action, and then results. And then it’s a full circle because the results will then inspire you because once you start seeing positive results, whether you’re you’re working out or you’re in your business and you’re making money or you’re getting stronger, smarter, whatever it might be that you’re trying to achieve when you see results. Man that’s like catching fire. You know, you just get inspired from the core and then no in turn will motivate you to do to act and then get more results and that’s kind of the circle of action that I talked about. You know, it all starts with action, just one step. And my catchphrase, if you call it admission, six, zero is do something about it. And I truly believe that


Justin Nassiri  20:10

there’s so many things I like about what he just said. So I just want to break it down for the audience. I’ve never heard the analogy of the small dose of venom, what I think is so great about that the little that I understand about venom is is that the way I understand it, you can actually build up a tolerance through small exposure to something that otherwise would kill you. And it’s such a great analogy of saying, Hey, I know that my life, my family, my business will benefit from me being able to tolerate more discomfort. So I’m going to take little tiny actions. And I even love the laundry list that you rattle up there of the cold showers or making your bed or eating the vegetable you don’t want to eat, forcing yourself to do something that you know is good for yourself, but you just don’t want to do. And I think that it’s great. You know, I appreciated hearing you say that you struggle sometimes to go to the gym every day, because in my mind, I’m like, Man, this guy’s probably been doing that for decades. And to hear you say that sometimes it’s not easy. It actually gives me confidence of like, oh, yeah, it’s not always easy to do these things. But it’s so great that you broke that down to just taking the small step, like taking that action. And I think that that’s a great reminder, when we don’t want to jump into the cold water, we don’t want to get up and go to the gym, like, like you said, just take a couple steps on the treadmill. And you’re right, it does start to feed into this loop. And a couple of questions that I have coming out of this. One of them is whether it’s for your own business with Mission six, zero, or that, you know, hundreds of clients that I’m guessing that you’ve advised, are there any habits that you found, help you or your clients achieve results, like I’m thinking of the brush your teeth actions that they just kind of take steps day in and day out. And those add up to monumental changes when it could be for yourself or your clients. But I’m, you know, I’m asking for a friend. Really? I’m asking for myself? Yeah.


Jason Van Camp  22:11

It’s a great question. And well, first off, I appreciate you recognizing the vulnerability. It’s like a confident vulnerability because I think there’s a lot of competitors out there. They’re just like, hey, I’m the biggest badass there isn’t I don’t make any mistakes. You know, I don’t I don’t fail. That’s all well and good. But we know that’s not true. So let’s just be honest about who we are and what we’re experiencing. And for me, when I talk with clients, I customize it. Because everybody’s different. Everybody’s facing different challenges, right. For some people, you know, you’ll say make your bed in the morning. Well, gosh, now I went to West Point, I’ve been making my bed in the morning since I was 18 years old. You know, it’s not difficult for me. It’s not hard for me. It’s not uncomfortable for me. I just do it. You know, it’s just a habit already. take cold showers. Okay, well, you know, I lived in Russia for two years. And when I lived there, they shut off the hot water in the summertime in the spring and summertime. So you had to take cold showers. And I got used to it. And it wasn’t that difficult after a while, you know, so I can’t tell you, hey, just to make your bed, hey, take a cold shower, because it might not be hard for you to do that. I ask you like what is hard for you? What are the things that you know you should be doing? And you’re not doing right now. For example, for me, I love to read, I got a stack of books on my nightstand. I mean, literally, I could go upstairs and take a picture of probably 40 books on my nightstand right now. 15 of them I’ve read this year and the other stack of books I want to read. And last year, life got away from me, man, like they just stayed there. I was too busy. I was too tired at night, you know, and I didn’t read. And so this year when I did the Dilbert discovered challenge I was like every day I’m going to read and I’m going to finish a book every single week. You know, that was hard for me because I did like deliberately take time out of my day and plan for that and say Nope, this is the time of the day where I’m going to read and I’m not going to be distracted or bothered you know, all digital sunset turn all the TV Electronics and cell phone, all that stuff off and I’m going to read other things for me stretching, I hate stretching. The worst person is stretching you know, like I go to a yoga class and it’s just like I’m the total embarrassment and that’s fine as long as I’m like trying to get better at that then that’s okay


Justin Nassiri  24:22

what I’m taking away from that it’s really encouraging to me it is so unique like what might be comfortable for me might be uncomfortable for someone else so you know what I was taking away from that was I just wrote down like what do I know I should be doing but it’s hard for me and like you that definitely cold showers for me. It is stretching it is kind of like I have these things. What I like about what you’re saying too is that if we take this on, eventually what’s uncomfortable I’m imagining after a long enough time becomes more habit becomes more commonplace, but you’re building this pattern of like Okay, now what holding me back. And it’s just this constant evolution. Because I think sometimes I want to just think that there’s this checklist that if I get these things, right, life will be a certain way. But the truth is, as we’re up leveling, as we’re growing, as we’re evolving and maturing, these things constantly change.


Jason Van Camp  25:14

That’s exactly right. Embrace that suck, embrace that suffering, because that’s what life is all about, you know, the purpose of life is to find your gift, I believe in the meaning of life is to give your gift away. And by doing that you’re serving other people, and you’re constantly placing yourself in positions of being uncomfortable. A lot of people think if only I can knock these blocks off, I’ll be good to go. That’s the furthest thing from the truth, man, because you’re always transferring problems from one set to the next, like, you’re just switching out problems that you’re currently facing. And then once you reach that next level, now you have a different set of problems. And really, life is about being problem solvers and figuring things out not just for ourselves, but for each other. And you get by with a little help from your friends. You don’t have to the Beatle said, and that’s all about admission. 600,


Justin Nassiri  26:00

you mentioned something you said the deliberate discomfort challenge. I’m not that far in the book yet. But could you speak to what that is?


Jason Van Camp  26:06

Oh, man, I love it. I appreciate your asking that we started it on January 4 this year. And it’s a 60 day challenge. I created it based off of our whole person, our total warrior model, we have certain requirements, certain challenges, mentally, you have to read a book every single week, you know, you pick your books, or we give you a library of books. One of the books is deliberate discomfort, which we’ll send you physically, we send you a workout program, you have a 60 minute workout in the gym every single day and a 60 minute cardio workout every single day, seven days a week. And also we send you a nutrition plan. If you want to upgrade the plan where meals will be delivered to your door, we can do that as well, spiritually, you know, we have a mindfulness exercise. And it’s an audio recording that you listen to every day. The first week is five to minute mindfulness practices. And then the last week we do a 40 minute practice every day, socially, we want you to connect or reconnect with a family member, a friend, a pastor and somebody that have fallen out with and have a meaningful conversation and emotionally have a gratitude journal that you fill out every day and professionally you watch one video in our masterclass series in the last week, you create your own videos, and you post them online. And every single day, whatever’s impacted you, as you go through this challenge. You have to post about it online with the hashtag DD challenge. And so we have 11 classes. In so far, about 500 people have taken it, the attrition rate is 3%. So 97% of people that did join, stay with us, and the graduation rate is pretty high as well. And I think what people say a lot of I don’t have the time to do this, where do I find the time to workout twice a day? Well, I did it twice, I did this challenge twice. And if it matters to you, if you prioritize it, you can find the time to do all these things. And the testimonials are absolutely through the roof, people are changing their lives, changing their patterns of behavior, you know, becoming better people, because of this first time I did it, I lost 34 pounds. Second time I did it, I lost 23 pounds, you know, and that’s just because life got away from me, you know, COVID hit, I couldn’t go to the gym. And because I didn’t go to the gym, I didn’t want to figure out how to work out at home, you know, and then it was cold. And I didn’t want to run as much as I used to. And I just looked at myself and just was disgusted with what I was doing. Because I knew I was better than this. And I knew I could be better than this. And I want to just give that to other people as well.


Justin Nassiri  28:32

It’s such a great structure. I love the categories, you know, physically, spiritually, socially, emotionally, professionally, I really appreciate that duration too, because I’m guessing after 60 days of this regimen, that the after effects of that momentum is exceptional. And I like the way that you’ve crafted this in a way where you’ve got the nutrition component that someone needs extra help they can order the meal. So there’s kind of like this bumper bowling to help people wherever they may struggle. If someone’s interested in this deliberate discomfort challenge. Where can they find more information about that?


Jason Van Camp  29:06

Yeah, no, thanks for asking. I should have mentioned that it’s, you can go to the website, challenge dot delivered Or you can go to the website mission six And it’ll send you you’ll see the link there to sign up for the challenge. But we start our challenge every Monday, every Monday there’s a new class, and it’s awesome. You’re gonna love it. It’s hard to like don’t get me wrong, Justin, this thing is very, very difficult. So I want people to mentally prepare themselves for how difficult this is going to be. It’s not just for special operations, guys, it’s for everybody. We’ve got a 73 year old graduate. We got a triple amputee graduate, a guy that we had to modify the plan for a little bit, but no excuses, no failure. You have to do it every single day. Everything I asked you to do, and there’s no quitting.


Justin Nassiri  29:56

One other thing I’ll just point out, I’m training for my first ultra marathon. And one of the guys when I was first started training was just like Justin, ditch the training plan at the start, just run every day. And what I appreciated about that was when I just surrendered into this thought of, I’m gonna run every day without exception. Like you said, it becomes a habit, it becomes something that I didn’t think of is today, my off day, it’s rainy, maybe I skip, it just became a habit, what I like about that aspect of like, you know, I view it as people surrendering to say, Okay, I’m going to listen to what Jason says, I’m going to do it, there becomes this freedom, then of just saying, I’m going to do this, even if it doesn’t feel good, I’m going to do the workout, I’m going to do this exercise, like in that act of surrendering for the 60 day period. I’m guessing people that get out of whatever mental ruts hold them back whatever story they have about what they should or shouldn’t do. I think it’s such an exceptional thing for someone to opt in. And I’ll put all this in the show notes for listeners, so they can sign up if it’s right for them. But that thought, and then 97%, completion rate is insane. So having that structure, having the accountability, having the community of people who are embracing the suck along with you, there’s so many aspects. And one last thing I’ll say here is that, you know, both physically professional development, personal development, I found that like, you cannot do these things alone, I’m sure there’s some subset of listeners, and I’m not, you know, obviously, I’m not endorsing specifically this challenge, I have no financial incentive to do that. But what I like about this is, when I see people, myself included, say like, Oh, that’s great, I’m just gonna go off on my own and do it, I just find that I don’t stick with it, people don’t stick with it. And so you know, I’m sure there’s many programs that are great like this, I’ll put in show notes for the deliberate discomfort challenge, because this sounds like a great opportunity. But if what what Jason is saying resonates with you, my biggest encouragement for our listeners is, don’t just say, oh, that’s something great, I’ll do it on my own. Find a community find a group of people because it’s so much more fulfilling and rewarding, and so much more likely, you’ll complete it if you’re around people who have that mindset and have that commitment. So don’t cop out thinking like, oh, yeah, all this, find that YouTube video and do it on my own, find the structure, find the community, find the plan that’s right for you.


Jason Van Camp  32:18

Now, see me nod my head so much. I’m just applauding you. Because you’re absolutely spot on. You know, there’s a lot of great programs out there. But what sets the other discover challenge, apart from everybody else is the social aspect. We have a tribe, to the community. We have a private Facebook group where everybody’s encouraging each other. You know, when you’re posting every single day, it’s a powerful group, and it’s a positive group, you know, and when you focus on each other, when you say, Listen, I’m having a bad day, I don’t know if I can do this today. Everybody on the team is like, you can do this, come on, like, look at Tommy, he did it today, look at art, he did it today. And when you see people that are struggling and having a rough day, or they’re slightly banged up, and doing it anyway, when it comes time for you to do the same thing, like you have no excuse, you know, you have to do it when other people, your peers, your friends, that your supporters, you’re doing it you can’t let them down. Because it honestly that’s what sets us apart of the military from from other organizations is that brother, that camaraderie that bond and family forged in dark times, you know, the loyalty is forged in those dark times. So when we’re fighting in a trench, it’s not, you know, we’re not thinking about freedom, or the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence or a flag, we’re thinking about each other. You know, we’re thinking about the man to our left to a right, and we’re saying I’m not gonna let this person down. That’s it. And I know, they’re not going to let me down. And that’s why we’re going to win. And that’s what the Libris cover challenge is about, too, is like we’re doing it together. You know, we did a lot of after action review comments and testimonials. And by far, everybody’s saying the biggest impact is the social impact, like joining a family, a tribe that has your back. And that’s, that’s powerful.


Justin Nassiri  33:54

I want to ask as well as almost like the counterbalance. So I think at the start of the call, you kind of set a couple criteria for deliberate discomfort. I don’t remember what you said there. But I’m wondering about the person who gets excited and then pursues discomfort in a way of like, self flagellation, I guess what I’m trying to ask about is the discernment between choosing something that’s good for you that you don’t want to do. And then also the extreme though, where you’re like Grinding Gears where you might actually be doing damage by persisting when you should be listening to your body and backing off. And I know that’s like a very subtle distinction, but I’m just wondering if you have any thoughts about the guide rails to put around this or maybe someone who might misinterpret your message in a way that’s harmful for themselves?


Jason Van Camp  34:42

No, that’s a great question. And we do that from time to time so we’re not espousing masochist by any stretch of the imagination. We don’t want people to enjoy an activity that appears to be painful, you know, like legitimately painful or cause harm to themselves or to someone else. I can see how someone can look at deliver discomfort and possibly think that if they’re not thinking in the same line of thought as we are, we’re not saying that at all, you know, we’re saying, get uncomfortable being uncomfortable. You know, when we go through this challenge, if you’re injured, stop, you should stop and we tell people stop, we’ll get you into the next class, once you’re healed up, you have an injury, or you’re about to get an injury or something serious is happening. Listen, if you’re banged up, or you’re sore, or you’re hurt, and step up and do it, you know, I don’t want to hear the whining and the excuses about your sore, you need to do it, that’s when you grow, that’s when you become the person you were always destined to be. And I believe that and like sort of playing sports growing up, you know, and in college, you know, you kind of knew when you were really injured, and you could no longer go, and you kind of knew when you were kind of hurting a little bit, but you can keep fighting. And for the people that think that they can’t keep fighting, I guarantee the you can now but if you seriously are injured, you know, and you know it, pull yourself out of the game, and we’ll get you on the next round. And that’s okay. And we’ve had a few people in that situation. And that’s fine. You know, things happen. You know, you sprained an ankle, you know, you break an arm, whatever it might be doing your daily activities in your life, you know, things happen. And so I want to be sure we’re clear


Justin Nassiri  36:15

about that. That’s great. I know, we’ve talked about deliver discomfort, we’ve talked a little bit about mission six, zero, I also wanted to make space, just anything you want to share about warrior rising,


Jason Van Camp  36:25

oh, man, we’re rising is such a great organization I founded in 2015. It’s a nonprofit, a 501. C three. And so for veterans or immediate family members of veterans that want to find their purpose, again, we help them to do that by creating or accelerating their own businesses. And I think really, education is the highest form of charity. You know, it’s similar to the to the motivation, like we’re not going to be there 24/7 teach a man to fish leave for a lifetime, right? Give him a fish, he’s only going to eat for a day. I think there’s a lot of nonprofits out there that wants to do the right thing. There’s a lot of hula, but there’s not a lot of doer. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t want to give a veteran one good day, I want to do a veteran of good life. And the only way they can do that is by doing it themselves. And so we give the veterans, a few things that were rising. One is we have a personal intake call. So we talk to you, it’s an intimate conversation about what your goals are, why do you want to start a business. And oftentimes we find out together that this is not a good decision for you, you shouldn’t be pursuing this at this time. You know, it’s not a good idea. But if it is, and you want to pursue it, bring you into our program, and you go through a warrior Academy, which is a 40 video curriculum teaches you how to create a business plan. And you’re basically on your own to do that. And once you finish the warrior Academy, and you present to us the material, the homework that we asked you to do, and then you get a mentor, a one on one mentor, somebody who’s been successful in whatever industry trying to start a business in, and you and the mentor together create a go to market strategy. And after you create the strategy, you come back to warrior rising and we either give you a grant or an investment opportunity. And for some of the people that get grants, I’ll give you an example. 514 people applied in quarter one of this year, and we selected 12 of them. And we flew them out to Salt Lake City for what we call business shower. So similar to a bridal shower or baby shower. Business showers is an experience where you get all the tools and the equipment and the skills you need to succeed a business. And so for example, or I guess, literally, we gave these 12 veterans as a surprise flume and put them up in a nice hotel, took them out to dinner. And then we gave them a free custom business suit. We gave them a free laptop computer, we gave them a free website. We had a marketing crew out here, they made videos for all the so that they could use for their website or for their ads and so forth. We give them a haircut, we get a headshot. And then we did mentoring all day long in person mentoring with our guys, celebrity type, you know, like Rocco Vargas, for example, the guy that created Kota paxi is another guy in our squad. And then I surprise the veterans again and said, Hey, guys, you got two hours to put together presentation. We’re doing a business pitch tonight, and then winners gonna get $20,000 And so the guys were stressed out and you know, like intentionally I wanted them to feel stressed out. So one form. So we did a pitch competition, and we selected three finalists, and the three finalists pitched at dinner in front of about 100 people and some judges. And they selected the winner, which is Travis Arnold from case on shaving company, which is a great presentation, you got $20,000 on top of everything else. And then as a surprise, we gave the other two finalists $20,000 each. And then there’s another surprise we gave each of our veterans $2,000 And so that was the business shower. And we’re going to do another one in Napa, California on June 26. And so anybody that wants to apply for warrior rising go to warrior and and join our tribe because we’re doing great things


Justin Nassiri  40:00

I’ll add those in the show notes. I’ll ask a last question here in a second, which is just anything we may have missed. But I’m appreciating, first of all, your example, writing multiple successful books. Establishing mission six, zero is this great Corporation establishing warrior rising as this great nonprofit. So I really appreciate your example of someone who’s not settling for status quo, not settling for what’s comfortable and constantly putting yourself out there. It’s a great example. And then second of all, I just I really appreciate the message of deliberate discomfort, because for me, we have no shortage of comfort, right now I can have a hot shower whenever I want, I can push a button on my phone and get whatever meal I want. I can drive in my air conditioned car, like I can build a life with just a warm blanket around me all the time. And I know that doesn’t lead to fulfillment. And so I just really appreciate how you’re championing this different perspective of the thing that so many of us are avoiding discomfort, there is a salve and that there is this incredible nutrient if we’re willing to adopt that and it leads to more growth, it leads to more service and more impact so I just want to appreciate you for that. But in closing anything that we didn’t talk about that you want to make sure listeners know before we wrap up,


Jason Van Camp  41:20

notice and thanks for having me on man we talked about mission six zero. We talked about what we do a mission six zero. We talked about the December December challenge fired up about I guess we didn’t talk about we have a shop at Michigan six zero so if you want to get some apparel like this shirt here are for skull OG, you know, the M 60. You know, the vicious website to get some stuff there. We talked warrior rising, we talked, veterans applying for warrior rising. We didn’t talk about people that want to be mentors for warrior rising so if you want to be a mentor, you want to help out volunteer if you want to give back and feel good about giving back and see results of your endeavors. Your efforts join the warrior rising mentor tribe by going to warrior Other than that, just I think we’re solid man I appreciate it and I hope your listeners got a lot of value out of this and enjoyed it. I certainly did. This was a lot of fun.

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