Today I’m talking with John Hinchliffe about how giving should be the new guideline in marketing, community development, and business. John has spent over a decade freely giving his knowledge through mentoring, community building and LinkedIn initiatives to reach thousands of individuals and encourage others to do the same as a means to network most effectively.
This is a show all about getting attention online. Whether it is for you personally or for your company, each week we delve into how to get attention, how to keep attention, and how to make money from attention.
John Hinchliffe is an internationally recognised award-winning digital learning expert with over 12 years in the field. He is Head of Talent at Jam Pan, The #1 On-Demand Digital Learning Marketplace, which connects the right expert freelancers and agencies with your digital learning needs. He also is the founder of the Global Learning and Development Community and currently shortlisted for Covid Champion at the upcoming LPI Learning Awards in recognition of his efforts to help others.
School of Greatness – one of the top-ranked Business and Self-Development podcasts in iTunes
I was finding that the more people that I was helping the better I was getting at my job because it was almost like career therapy.
How do you provide a solution at the point of need that gives somebody the right answer quickly and easily that they can take onboard and can implement?
Giving builds trust, empathy and credibility. Would you rather buy something from somebody who you’ve just seen a short bio of or somebody who actively helps you?
How can your organization impart giving? How can you provide a solution to a problem? You don’t have to, as a business, give away the whole product or your whole IP.
How is it that you can solve a problem for somebody that’s going to help them, can make them like you, and then it’s more likely that they’re going to buy from you in the future?
The more people are invested in the help that you give, the more they’re interested in you as an individual. What makes you tick? Why are you doing this? Why are you so helpful?
If you don’t have a big ego and you don’t need control, it can make your life so much easier. But it also means that your community really is a community.
I’m doing something that takes a few hours out of my life, but it’s legacy. When we really come down to it, it’s karma and legacy, which you can’t really put a price on.
People don’t remember what you said but they remember how you made them feel.
There’s the old saying do unto others like you want them to do to you. Flip that into do unto others like you’re doing to yourself.
Justin Nassiri 00:00
On this episode of May I have your attention giving is it builds trust.
John Hinchliffe 00:05
It builds that empathy. And another thing is it builds credibility. You know, when we think about who would we rather buy something from? Would we rather buy something from somebody who we just seen a short bio of, or somebody who actively helps us?
Justin Nassiri 00:20
Today I’m talking with John Hinchcliffe about how giving should be the new guideline in marketing, community development and business. John has spent over a decade freely giving his knowledge through mentoring, community building and LinkedIn initiatives to reach 1000s of individuals and encourage others to do the same as a means to network most effectively. This is a show all about getting attention online, whether it’s for you personally, or for your company. Each week we delve into how to get attention, how to keep attention and how to make money from attention. May I have your attention is brought to you by captivate.ai, which turns your webinar or podcast into three months of social media content? Find out [email protected] Thank you for your attention. And with that, let’s start today’s episode. Well, joining me in Leeds, England is John Hinchcliffe John, welcome to May I have your attention.
John Hinchliffe 01:13
Thanks very much for having me.
Justin Nassiri 01:15
So I want to give a little bit of a bio for our audience. John is an internationally recognized award winning digital learning expert with over 12 years in the field. He is head of talent at jam pan that number one on demand digital learning marketplace, which connects the right expert freelancers and agencies with your digital learning needs. He is also the founder of the global learning and development community, and currently shortlisted for COVID COVID champion at the upcoming LPI learning awards and recognition recognition of his efforts to help others. So first thing is just anything to add or amend to that as a starting point.
John Hinchliffe 01:57
I’m just Joe nice to have that as an intro, thank you very much. Um, I mean, goodness, 12 years as pretty much flown by for me, the big things for me, I’ve really been expanding a career within an industry that I love, but also helping as many people as possible during that. So in addition to that, I volunteered on the board of directors for the elearning network, which is one of the biggest not for profit, it’s in the online learning industry. Been a mentor to more people that have got fingers and toes, and also been involved with academia helping them just really try and shift a focus towards making a real impact for young, disadvantaged children in this area. So I’m in very cold leads.
Justin Nassiri 02:45
So that that’s great. You know, one thing that that I’m aware of is that land fan was the one who introduced us and one of the things I learned in her interview was just how important it is to be passionate about whatever you’re investing your time and energy into, because it’s much more authentic. And it seems like, you know, elearning is something where for over a decade, you’ve really been interested and I’m just kind of curious to set a foundation like what was it about that, in what I’m guessing was the early days of elearning? What was it that pulled you in and kept you interested in that?
John Hinchliffe 03:18
Goodness, for me. So I started out as a face to face trainer. So I can admit it, it was really boring. You know, and I’m sure the learners were bored as well. And I started seeing presentations from people like Steve Jobs and just doing things differently. So really sparking imagination being creative. And for me, that’s something that I really wanted to do. So I started honing my craft on evenings and weekends, learning the tech, learning the principles, learning the sciences of how we learn, and also how we forget and start to hone my craft. And I just found it was something that I really loved. It was something that I had interest in. But also I could communicate that really well to others. And so I started to build and develop and started in roles where I could implement those. And I was finding that the more people that I was helping the better I was getting at my job, because it was almost like career therapy, find out what works, what’s not working, where things have gone bad and make those changes. And so for me, it’s really been that love of something that I’ve been able to do as a really holistic approach with others. And it turns out was pretty good as well. So which is really nice.
Justin Nassiri 04:29
You know, I’m embarrassed to say this just stood out to me right now and you said that but because I know we’ll talk a lot about giving in our in our conversation, but I’m realizing that a lot of what I’m investigating right now is like what does capture people’s attention more from a lens of marketing, but I’m realizing that the skill that you’ve cultivated over the last decade is how do you capture the attention of students and people learning something and how do you affect them? really get them interested in the material and get them to retain it. And and I know this is a massive question, but I’m kind of curious what stands out to you about how do you get your students interested in the material that you’re providing?
John Hinchliffe 05:16
I think it really comes down to that analysis of what it is you’re trying to do. I mean, in some cases, storytelling, you know, we really grab hold of a story, we love to see how it pans out, one of the best piece of learning I’ve ever seen, was a podcast driven anti money laundering course, which really told a story of how somebody gets into a position where they have to create, you know, fake profiles, extort money, and it just takes you on a journey where you’re engaged, you’re bought in, then also, another thing that I think about is, how do you provide a solution somebody need at the point that they need it. So taking us away from the traditional one hour elearning that I’m sure people have done and didn’t like, you know, an induction day. But really think about the point of need when you need a solution, which Google works perfectly for. But how do you make it specific to your organization? How do you provide that in the most streamlined form? And that’s proven to be, you know, some of the most successful because we forget, as human beings, we’re fallible? And so it’s how do you provide a solution at the point of need, that gives somebody the right answer quickly, easily, and that they can take on board and they can implement? So you know, when we think about attention, and we think about solutions? You know, those kind of two really playing credible factors.
Justin Nassiri 06:35
Is that is that not to go too far off road here. But is that how do you how do you surface? Those questions Is that because you’re getting questions from your community, you’re like, oh, we need to double click on this and explain this better? Is that a component of kind of like looking at search history and search volume saying like, Oh, there’s a hunger for this topic? How do you even know what your community what your students are wanting to know about?
John Hinchliffe 07:01
So it’s really talking, really having that in depth talking, not just working with the high stakeholders, but the people in the trenches? What are their biggest frustrations? What do they need to know? When we look at things such as onboarding inductions? What do people really want to know? So that people who have recently been on boarded? Would they have preferred to know about what you wear on your first day, rather than the whole C suite? And their history? So talking to the people really finding out creating learner personas. So who are your personas? Who are your people? What are their interests? What devices are they using to really understand what’s right for them, and then tailoring that solution within those needs to really give them something that they need. And that’s going to be useful? Because that’s the whole point of it.
Justin Nassiri 07:50
It sounds like empathy and iteration are so key. They’re like, I’m hearing in everything that you’re saying that deep empathy of putting yourself back in that in the shoes of, you know, I can literally picture like, yeah, I remember meeting like the whole C suite. And like that was so less relevant than like, what am I wearing tomorrow? versus, you know, and then also iterating? Like, I imagine that changes over time. And once you provide them with what they’re wanting, there’s some other question that comes up. So I love the constant improvement aspect of what you’re saying.
John Hinchliffe 08:20
Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s life, isn’t it? You know, it’s ever evolving. It’s ever changing. And it’s how do we provide solutions that are ever evolving? And we’re open to it? I think that’s one of the key things having an organization that is open to change.
Justin Nassiri 08:37
Yeah. Now, now, a big part of of your history and story and belief. Like, it seems like something that’s really driving you is this sense of giving, and I’m wondering maybe at an outset, why why should companies individuals? Why should they care about giving? Why should that be part of their ethos, part of their foundation of who they are,
John Hinchliffe 09:01
I think really a big thing for me giving is it builds trust, it builds the empathy. And another thing is it builds credibility. You know, when we think about who would we rather buy something from? Would we rather buy something from somebody who we just seen a short bio of, or somebody who actively helps us? You know, that becomes almost like a subconscious friend. And so it’s really that giving credibility? What is the right way for your organization, you as an individual whereby you can impart giving, but how can you? I think one of the biggest things for me is how can you provide a solution to a problem that somebody has, you don’t have to, as a business, give away the whole product or your whole, you know, IP? But how is it that you can solve a problem for somebody that’s going to help them can make them like you, and then it’s more likely that they’re going to buy from you in the future? And also when we think about credibility? It’s not What you know is what you can prove? You know, we are in incredibly busy times whereby there’s a lot of competition no matter what area you’re in. So it’s how do you really stand out? How do you prove that you know what you can do? You can show to people what you can do. But you can do it in a way that you build that trust, you can build that camaraderie. In some ways, if you’re building a community, it’s really how do you provide solutions? And you’ve identified the problems. It’s almost coming back to learning, how you providing, you know, a results for a problem. And I think, you know, giving and it’s many forms many ways is incredible pop for that.
Justin Nassiri 10:44
What about the children, I have a two year old, that children’s book that’s coming to mind for me is Shel Silverstein’s The Giving Tree and part of the fear that comes up with me, because I’m buying into everything you’re saying, but part of the fear is like, man, what if someone listening to this or a company listen to this? What if it is just always giving and giving and giving and giving in the end up as this stump with nothing? Nothing left to to give? Do you have any advice around that fear? Or even the thought it like? At what point? Does it become more of like, you know, you’ve given and then it’s more of like, oh, maybe this is a product? that’s right for your transition, it tends to be a win for both the company but also the community they’re serving?
John Hinchliffe 11:26
Yeah, I think it’s a really great point, I think it comes back to you as an individual, you know, why are you doing it? Why would you give, you know, is it that you are just inherently super good, and you want to help trans people? Or as an organization? What’s the end goal? So what does this giving? Actually do? You know, is it a marketing tool that you are able to give this information that will lead to a campaign? Is it that it is part of your core, to your organization, it’s part of your core values? It’s really understanding, you know, what is this about? And also, what are you wanting to get out of things, you know, if you are looking for a job, you know, you giving so you giving help you give an advice, you show him what you can do? How is that you can also tag onto that, what you’re looking for, so letting people also know your story. Because the more people are invested in the help that you give, the more they’re interested in us as an individual, you know, what makes you tick? Why are you doing this? Why are you so helpful? So it’s really understanding, you know, what angle are you going up, but also being completely transparent. And that’s another thing people, I get a lot of people who will message you to me on LinkedIn. And they will come in and they’ll say, oh, you know, I’ve got this five top tips. And you can get a 10% discount. It just kind of feels a bit dirty. It’s when we take it to things such as I’m very inspired by Gary Vaynerchuk. Incredible, such an inspiring man in such a giver, as well. But his whole thing is Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. So it’s give, give, give, offer something that people can or they can’t take, but don’t have the expectation that everybody’s going to take it. So give, give, give, but you are able to offer your services should be boring to take up. So it’s that credibility. And then also, you know, offering those services.
Justin Nassiri 13:25
You know, one thing that stands out a couple of conversations ago, I met with Anita Malick, and one of the things that I extracted from our conversation was a sense that she’s a LinkedIn top voice, but it was kind of like she was interested in diversity and inclusion in these things personally. And her giving was just part of her own journey, she would research find something and share it. She was doing like she had her own pursuit. And giving was merely the byproduct of what she was doing. And so I like this sense, from what you’re saying, of being clear on why you’re giving what you’re giving. And that that’s, to me resonates much more than this, like selfless, you know, that could lead to resentment of this covert contract if I was giving in order to get rather than like, you know, this is the the byproduct of something I’m doing or like Gary Vaynerchuk says, like, Okay, I’m gonna offer something every four times that may serve them but but people would be willing to pay for so I think that’s, that’s really fantastic.
John Hinchliffe 14:27
Yeah, and he is it is that thing of, you know, with Gary Vaynerchuk, give, give, give, so you’re giving so much value so that people think you know what, actually, they’ve given me so much value if buying that book, if, you know, listened to their podcast, you know, helps them as well. I’m okay with that.
Justin Nassiri 14:44
Yeah, yep. What about I wanted to ask you because I know a lot of people in our audience are interested in building a community. And I’m curious how giving relates to that and also thoughts that you have around sharing leadership responsibilities within an organization.
John Hinchliffe 15:01
Yeah, I mean, my kind of road to building communities are weird and a wonderful one. So I previously lived in the United Arab Emirates. And when I arrived there, I reached out to people in my industry who lived in the country, and said, Where are the meetups, you know, where climb meets others at events. And they said, Well, you can’t really they don’t exist, and the ones that do exist you have to pay for. And that just felt wrong to me. I mean, I previously served with the E Learning Network as their events, kind of volunteer, and just, you know, having events of a bar or restaurant and just people being able to meet and not feel alone. And so I was living in the desert at the time. And I just put out a message on LinkedIn and said, if anybody would like to meet others in the industry, I’m going to drive an hour and a half to Dubai, I will be at this bar. If you want to come chat to people, come find me there. I got tons of messages from people asking how free was free? Was there going to be a secret charge, were they going to be charged on the door? Did they have to buy me drinks, I use just that reiteration of it’s free, it’s free. And so I drove an hour and a half. And it’s quite scary driving in the UAE. There’s not too many rules, and it gets quite frightening. pay for a hotel, stay over, got there, and five people turned up. And we talked and I just gave him so much value, I gave him what was in my head and in my heart from all of my years of experience. And then word broke, that it wasn’t a money making scheme. It was just people coming together and meeting others. And then the next time we’ve got like 15 people, then we’ve got 25, then we’ve got 35. And he’s grown, it’s grown, and then COVID hit. And so I needed to pivot. And I opened it up on Zoom. But then I thought Why would a zoom restrict me just to the UAE. So I opened up to the world. And we had about 170 people registered for it. I think about about 50 turned up, which was a big difference. And then it was that thing of just giving value, just people talking together in this weird time that we were living in. And then once again, people saw so we take images, we take a screenshot of everybody that was there. And I thank everybody individually on LinkedIn, it would take like, half an hour to individually like, you know, everybody there come through. And then it built and built and people could see that people were having fun, and then they’d have recommendations from other people. And it’s grown and we’ve welcomed over 800 people so far. Each week is around 100 people. And you have regulars you have people in Toronto, who now go for coffee sometimes, which seems alien. But it is this thing of it’s grown, it’s grown, but it had a really horrible name. In the beginning, it was called the LMB global zoom meetup, which is far too prescriptive and restrictive, because it really is short. So I asked the community what they wanted to be called, because it always had the voice of being for the community by the community. And I couldn’t be just a voice, a person telling people what it was, it was up to them. So they voted, and became the global learning development community. I even let them design their own logo, and they voted on it. So it’s really giving the ownership of it to your community. And then also thinking about it, having a community is a lot of work. That is, if you’ve never created one before it takes a lot of work, it’s emails, it’s making sure things are gonna work, okay. It’s making sure your tech works, it’s making sure that nobody’s, that’s another thing that I do first rule of it is no selling. Because it’s a safe environment for people just to get to know one another. And so within that, I opened it up to them and said, Look, if anybody would like to be involved as a volunteer, let me know what you want to be. Here is everything that I do within the week, what you want to do. So within there, we have things such as fun quizzes. So we now have quiz masters. We’ve got people who’d in social media post people who doing you know, the MailChimp people who do in the website. And it just means that if you don’t have a big ego, and you don’t need control, it can make your life so much easier. But it also means that your community really is a community. And for me, that’s always going to be what it’s about. And it’s just going to grow and grow.
Justin Nassiri 19:32
It’s it’s such a gift that you’re describing to the community and the members because not only does that give people a toehold to be part of something that they care about. But it also you know, clearly in your case, it allows you to do a lot more a lot better. But I just want to acknowledge it’s it’s you know, as as an entrepreneur myself, it’s it’s very tough to let your reins I like the thought of the name and the logo. I think that when I talk to other entrepreneurs, that’s the thing that they care most about that others care least about. And so to take that, and to let go of that, and to let the community, you know, decide that for themselves, I can imagine how that makes everyone so much more interested and invested in what you’re doing. But that takes a certain amount of self awareness to be able to relinquish that control.
John Hinchliffe 20:19
Yeah. And I really think, you know, self awareness is one of the key things in everything that we do. And I think it’s also, you know, where it’s being honest, you know, that transparency, where are you coming from, and for me, that transparency has always been, this is a safe environment for you, this is for you, by you. Because it’s not me, I am not this community, they’re the community. So, you know, opening it up, and it’s also, let’s say, self awareness on me as well. You know, I’m a human being, I forget things, and I don’t want there to be mishaps or emails not sent, because I’m too busy. I mean, at the same time, you know, that is in my spare time, that’s my evenings, my weekends. At the same time, I’m incredibly busy in a job that I love. So, you know, it’s making sure that everything runs smoothly. And also that there is that feeling of belonging, you know, and knowing that this safe space is, it’s by them, it is them. And it’s so beautiful, that we have so many regulars and so many people who have been selfish, let’s talk about selfish reasons, the amount of emails that I get from people who say, I’m a single mother in Toronto, and this is the only time in the week where I get to speak to adults. Or you’ve helped me find a job because I got put in a breakout room with so and so who I got introduced to that a vacancy, we hit it off, and now I’m working for them. And it’s those, it’s, it’s karma. I’m a big believer in that. And if I’m making that positive impact, and just impacting people that maybe I’ll never meet. But if I’m doing something that takes a few hours out of my life, but it’s legacy, when we really come down to it’s that karma and legacy, which you can’t really put a price on.
Justin Nassiri 22:14
Mm hmm. I think that there’s that important aspect of the container that you created, where there wasn’t selling where it was safe for people people to participate, they knew that their opinion matters, like I love the deliberateness of creating a container where people can relax and can feel safe. And that allows them to not just show up more frequently, but I’m guessing participate more fully and share more authentically. And it’s also, it’s also powerful to think that to think of the broader scale in which you’re giving is impacting people. And so it’s like establishing connection to for people that really need it, especially right now. And I can see now why you’re a COVID champion or being recognized as a shortlisted as a COVID champion, because I can see how much people need that connection. And it must be fulfilling for you to to not put pressure on, it’s not just about making money or sales or anything like that. But it’s like knowing that you’re having a positive impact on others. And I love that surrender and the the surrender and kind of trust that it will all work out rather than like, is every event leading to something for me, it’s more of like, just continuing to, to give and put good things out there.
John Hinchliffe 23:30
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it really is. It’s just it’s a long game. You know, that’s something that we always have to remember with everything. It is a long game. But you know, I actually did a meet up on Christmas Day. So I took two hours away from my family, just that I knew people were going to be on their own because of the weird situation we’re in. There was 25 people who turn up on Christmas Day, from all over the world who we laughed, we joked, we wore Christmas party hats where we had them. We told bad jokes, we had a fun quiz. But the amount of messages I got after that of people that were just so thankful and people who in the end couldn’t make it because the loved ones managed to get through. But just the appreciation that there was that ability for people just to have just somebody there on it’s another day but it’s really significant. Some people I think, you know, that’s it always comes back to that thing of people don’t remember what you said, but they remember how you made them feel. And if for one part of 2020 they felt that they were among friends, then that’s the best thing.
Justin Nassiri 24:45
I you know, I think that I’m realizing as you’re saying this to kind of going back to where we started the conversation and my curiosity around how do you understand what questions you need to be answering For your community, I’m realizing that in this community that you’ve built and just being part of so many conversations and seeing people exchange, I’m guessing that even on a subconscious level, you’re just picking up and soaking in what people are longing for what people are needing frustrations, and what a great way to just be open to learning about, you know, we talked about that continuous growth. I’m imagine this as a fire hose for you to just see these trends among such a diverse group of people and realizing, you know, what, what more you could do to help out that group of people? Yeah, it’s
John Hinchliffe 25:36
helping them but it’s also because it’s an industry that I love, and I’m really highly engaged with it. It’s also understanding what are people doing at the moment? So how does that actually help me understand the industry better? What’s happening? What are the trends? What are the software’s that people are using more? You know, where are the pain points, because that also helps me in my career, but also in the community. It’s listening to them and really understanding, you know, why is this so important to them? What can we do to help them, one of the things that was taking place was I was going into different breakout rooms. So I’ll bobbin make sure everybody’s okay. But people were saying, This is amazing, like, I love it, that I can meet somebody, once per week, it’d be great if we did this more often. Now, that’s a lot of admin, but then I thought, let’s just have a Slack channel. It’s nice and easy. I was quite new to Slack. So what I did was relinquish that kind of ownership and said, Look, can somebody set up a slack? Set it up? Put out the word, and just a look, would anybody fancy joining the slack? I thought maybe we get like 2030 people, you know, really interested? It’s now close to 400 people. And it just it facilitates those questions. And those were things that will pop in someone’s head on a Monday. And then you can get the answer rather than having to wait until Friday. And maybe I’ll forget it, or maybe it’s too late. And so yeah, it’s listening to people. And another really beautiful thing of it was that he does cost money, it does cost money to have a community. And I was transparent with people about that. I’m a person, I’m an individual, that’s cost me money. And people because of the value that was being brought offered to pay wasn’t that I had to create a membership scheme, you know, and then tell them, they said, Look, we want to help out, you know, this brings me so much joy, so much value, I’ve met so many friends that I never would have, can I sponsor? Can I subscribe? How can I do this. So we created a Patreon page, created two layers made it non mandatory. But so if you want to support, then these are what you can do for like the V IP level, you’ll get some extra events because super appreciative that they pay, you know, $12 a month. And so we did that. And thankfully now that actually pays and covers the costs. So it’s a little less stressful for me.
Justin Nassiri 28:04
It’s it’s so the first thing that you said makes me think of that quote, I think it’s Henry Ford, who said, If I had listened to my customers, I would have built a faster horse. And so I love that you are getting this feedback that people wanted more of this community more of this connection, and my mind immediately went to Oh, and then he started doing this twice a week. But I love that you instead of doing more of the same you realized, okay, we can do asynchronous communication or text communication with with Slack. And then you also relinquish control to let someone else run with that. And the Yes, I think that that’s great. But I also appreciate how you were open. And Trent, like you said transparent with your community of saying like I am incurring costs here, rather than suffering in silence, or rather than becoming resentful. You were open with that, and your community rose to meet that in a way that didn’t exclude people who weren’t in a place to be able to pay the 12 bucks a month or whatever it is, but also allowed people to support and I can imagine that’s also a gift of letting them feel like they are keeping this going, that they’re that they’re helping you further this work.
John Hinchliffe 29:12
Exactly. It’s, it’s like a personal investment. You know, it’s something that you believe in, and that’s one of the most beautiful things about it is you know, people come through and they support and the greatest thing is, you know, I will say thank you to them, I will individually say thank you to them, but then they’ll come back and say why why tankers, and it’s it is nothing it’s how can you make your community about the community? That’s me, you know, I don’t have an ego I don’t need the control. I just need to make sure that people are getting value. And that’s it. Absolute Cool. Is that value.
Justin Nassiri 29:53
Can you speak to you know, I think one aspect of giving too is giving knowledge and I’m just kind of curious your thoughts on like, how does giving relate to sharing your thoughts sharing your knowledge.
John Hinchliffe 30:04
I mean, goodness, for me, it’s a massive thing. Mentoring I, I honestly couldn’t tell you how many people I’ve mentored, because somebody will come through and they’ll come on LinkedIn. And I’ll say, Look, I’m brand new to the elearning. Field, what resources would you recommend? And I’ll have a call with them. Ironically, I remember the first person I ever mentored now is a freelancer for jam pan. And she’s incredible. And I get to work with that. And it’s a wonderful that circle. So I’ve been mentoring is great thing. But another thing I did was I did something. Can you remember the Ice Bucket Challenge?
Justin Nassiri 30:39
Yeah, yeah. ALS. Yeah. Yeah.
John Hinchliffe 30:42
So I took inspiration from that, because I was really curious how many people got on board? Yes, it was novel. But why do people do it? Just because somebody called them out? They put onus on them? Yep. And I thought within this industry that I’m in, there are so many people with so many incredible tips that when I talked to them, they’ll give them to me, I thought, how do we get out of people? Yeah. So I created this thing called wanted Wednesday, which was the catchy it’s a catchy name. And so what it was you video record yourself, given one tip on a Wednesday, and you nominate two people, and then they do a video, they give a tip, normally to people and does that. And so I thought, you know, what, if this gets 300 views, or, you know, it helps a couple of people. Brilliant. Yeah, but it’s no cough. We had companies like Microsoft, LinkedIn, Credit Suisse. I mean, goodness, it had like 100,000 views. Last time I looked at it was novel. But it also put the onus on people. And I’ve seen different iterations of this, like top tip Thursday, Top Tip Tuesday. And it’s just incredible. And there’s no kind of how dare they copy my idea. I was the originator of it. I’ve had people come to me who’ve done copies, and apologized. And I said, Why are we apologizing? Hmm, right? Because it inspires people gives value to people, people get tips that are helpful. But also, there’s a cheeky little undertone of videos becoming more and more prominent. And the amount of people I talked to who were saying, I could never get in front of camera, I could never do a video of myself. It gives them that little bit of onus, it just pushes them in the right direction. And then I collaborated with a app that actually has a teleprompter on it with preset questions relating to the ones that Wednesday, completely free of charge, and just gave it to people so that if this was their first time, and they were nervous, they could use the app, I gave them instructions on a video on the app. So we fully went custom on it was a great collaboration. And they just recorded the videos, uploaded it hashtag wants it Wednesday. And it just went from there. And then people who were my idols in the industry, were doing it. It was just this weird, wonderful thing. And, you know, it did, it did make a lot of difference. And a lot of people were on board with it. But it was just this thing of a lot of people found things that they never thought, you know, would be relevant in their industry. And they got a lot of value from it.
Justin Nassiri 33:27
It’s just crazy to think that the the key there that you unlocked was like you really need to put the onus on people. And it could be something as simple as just asking for their tip. But I never I never put that together with the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge where it was that kind of calling out aspect. But sometimes that that’s the prompt that’s needed to unlock that knowledge to unlock that that advice. One thing that I’m wondering about is that you had said earlier about how you know, you’re in it for the long term. And I I’ve had two conversations in the last week, where the person I was speaking with, you know, both of them were entrepreneurs, but the person I was speaking with the basic flavor was like, I need to generate this amount of money this month. And I realized like, that’s no fault on them. I don’t know what their life circumstances are. But I feel like we’re you know, very often myself and many people were so short term focused, and it’s so much of tit for tat what’s in it for me if I do this, what will I get in return? And what you’re describing is much more of a philosophy and almost like lifestyle of giving without any expectation of the return. And I’m wondering if you have any advice for people about shifting gears out of that short term focus out of maybe that more self centered focus, to be in a place where they can without resentment be more generous and more giving without always looking for Something to come back to them.
John Hinchliffe 35:02
I think it’s really having the aspiration of What’s your ultimate goal? So when you think, what is your five year realistic goal? What does that mean? And how can you provide value that would bring you to there? I mean, for me, when I think about, you know, what do I really want to create are the moments of community, but I really want to contend with the really big communities in the eLearning. Industry, because why can’t I? And this is another thing that people, why can’t you compete with the big ones? They all started from somewhere? So why can’t you build the biggest? But it’s also that thing of how can you build the biggest without tearing other people down? How can you do it for the right reasons? How can you provide as much value as possible? I think it’s also, you know, when you are so short term focused, it’s what do you really need? You know, is it validation? Is it monetary values? And it’s starting to shift that focus to what’s your bigger goal? What is the big aim? And really, why do you want that? I mean, for me, massive thing for me is legacy, you know, and impact. And people being able to say nice things about me when I die, if for somebody else, it is that they need X amount of money. The question is why? But it’s also, what value do you need to bring to people in order to obtain that? You know, and how are you being transparent with them and yourself? In order to shift to that? So it’s, it is tricky. It really is because we’ve got bills to pay. But it’s how can you do things for the right reason? You know, that’s very much a big thing for me is, well, I mean, so Gary Vaynerchuk isn’t it’s doing the right thing is always the right thing. But I think it’s, you know, thoughts in your mind, then kind of lead you to a good place?
Justin Nassiri 37:00
I think that it’s a, I think that that’s great. Because the going back to your point earlier about self knowledge, it is kind of that slowing down to understand what is driving you and what is important in your case, legacy or whatever it is. And I like the questioning of that as well. Like if someone says it’s about $1 amount, okay, like, what’s behind that? What does that represent? What is that giving you? And once you’re clear on that, it becomes like I’m picturing, you know, even easy said that, like people at your funeral, your eulogy? What are they gonna say about you, if that’s really a North Star for you, the short, the quick buck, that the immediate turnaround, the immediate getting back, it really does fade? Because you’ve got this longer lens, you’ve got this longer sight, I think that’s a very powerful, powerful way to orient oneself.
John Hinchliffe 37:54
Yeah, and I think the journey is incredible. I mean, for me, it’s opened so many different doors, you know, I have had the privilege of so many different speaking gigs. I mean, goodness, tomorrow, I’m speaking at a conference being broadcast in the US. I’ve spoken at gigs in Finland, of all basis. And really, for me, it’s the people that I meet along the way, but also, the things that you get from doing good things is really quite fun. Yeah, let’s, let’s talk about that on a selfish level. I mean, goodness, I get access to great software for free, because I’ve been doing so many good things, and talk to people genuinely taking an interest in them, that they want to show what they can do. They want to show that they’re bringing value to me because I brought them value. And so that kind of North Star takes you along an incredible journey that is going to change along the way and your priorities will change. But it’s it’s incredibly fun along the way.
Justin Nassiri 38:56
Do you I mean, in that vein of these things that have come back to you, do you have any thoughts on like the return on investment of giving of like the taking this approach? I know that sounds it sounds really selfish to say it that way. But yeah.
John Hinchliffe 39:08
But I mean, it’s also that thing of is being selfish a bad thing? Hmm. Yeah, I mean, for me, it has opened up doors, it has got me jobs. It’s got to meet new friends. And so I think when we’re talking about ROI, it’s really what do you need really need at the moment? So I mean, you know, the wonderful thing about this conversation is we can keep on bringing ourselves back to that early conversation of learning, that analysis, analysis, what do you need? If right now you need more sales? Cool. What value are you going to bring to people so that you’re in a nice credible position that they trust you that they like you that you’re bringing so much value that you now asking? Hey, really glad have helped you? I’ve got this product, they’ll also help you. Yep, Would you be open to it? Because it’s far easier doing that than going straight into the DMS and trying to sell to people?
Justin Nassiri 40:07
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s awesome. I always like to ask about resources, you know, podcasts, books, anything that’s kind of helped you in your career and your life that you would recommend to people watching, you’re listening,
John Hinchliffe 40:26
I think kind of biggies for me. So books, Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I think that is a great insight into humans, because we deal with people so how to understand humans a little bit better, and just get to how people really work. Franklin Covey, I used to work for them and went through their Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I think that’s a really great study of how to really understand each other, and how do we give people time, really take the effort to understand, you know, the other person that we’re with, think in terms of podcasts, the School of Greatness by Lewis Howes such an incredible inspiring individual and the guests he has is wonderful. I think the biggest four books and just resources has always been for me, Gary Vaynerchuk. And just understanding and seeing the practitioner ship of giving, you know, just give, give, give Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. So give, give, give, then ask, you know, it’s not all about just giving, and there not being any return, because there has to be something in it for you. So I think for me, those are, yeah, those are the really ones that really inspire me and really have shaped a lot of what I do.
Justin Nassiri 41:44
That’s great. And that be at captivate.ai/podcast, we’ll have shownotes live links to How to Win Friends and Influence People, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, anything by Gary Vaynerchuk. And the School of Greatness. I always like to reserve the last question as open ended. And you can take that as, what have we not covered that you want to make sure people know? Or is there any kind of last words that you’d like to leave people with?
John Hinchliffe 42:13
I think, you know, one of the beautiful things we’ve been talking about is self awareness. You know, why are you doing what you’re doing? And also, what’s in it for you? You know, I think I kind of flipped things a bit. And you know, the old saying, Do unto others, like you want them to do to you flip that into Do unto others, like you’re doing to yourself. If I’m giving somebody so much value, I’m getting so much value. Because I’m helping somebody that’s helping me, you know, that’s going to perk up my day, that’s going to make me you know, have a skip in my step. But it’s also going to mean that I know that the knowledge that I have, because we teach others how we want to be treated. It’s a massive thing. And so if we’re open and we’re honest, and we’re giving with others, you know, on a large percentage, they’re gonna be the same to us. Yep. Whether that’s business deals, whether that’s friendships, when that is knowledge that’s going to help you in the future. That’s something really important. And it just sets such a great transparent precedent for all your interactions. So I think that, for me is the biggest things when you are building a community when you are helping when you’re mentoring. It’s not that you’re doing it for a selfish reason. It’s cuz you’re just doing it because it’s right.
Justin Nassiri 43:41
That’s great. Well, John, I guess one true last question, Where can people find you?
John Hinchliffe 43:46
So if people would like to connect and they would like a good old chinwag, then you can find me pretty much living on LinkedIn. So just search for John Jo HN, Hinchcliffe hihi n ch li WFE. The reason I spell it so many people get it wrong. So you can very much find me there. Or if you are a freelancer, or an organization that is looking to incorporate freelance talent for your digital learning, then you can find me at jam pan.
Justin Nassiri 44:15
Beautiful, and I’ll add that in the show notes as well. John, thank you so much for your time today.
John Hinchliffe 44:20
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been great.
Justin Nassiri 44:23
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